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How did you become known as the ‘Prince of Jiu-Jitsu’?
When I went to America to fight on the Battlecade, my daddy’s nickname was the ‘King of Jiu-Jitsu’. I am his son, so they called me the ‘Prince of Jiu-Jitsu’.
There seems to be a strong sense of legacy attached to Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. What part does legacy play in ensuring Jiu-Jitsu is taught true to the Gracie style?
I would say that since my daddy Carlson Gracie started teaching, there is not so much legacy involved. Back in the past, my father was the one who really opened Jiu-Jitsu for the public. Before then, the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu style was kind of closed off. Some select people would train in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but they [the Gracies] weren’t teaching a lot of the secret moves, they kept these moves for themselves. My daddy would teach anyone who wanted to learn, and he would teach them all of the moves.
How would you describe Carlson Gracie Senior’s teaching style?
Carlson Gracie Senior was a very determined guy. He always made sure that his students learnt properly, even if he had to spend hours with one student. He was the type of guy that would go and do a seminar and show five moves in three hours. Some people, they try and show 20 moves in one seminar but with my daddy, the five moves you learn, you learn really well — and if you have to use one of them, you know it’s going to work. So that’s the way he’d teach. He was the same in his classes; for the whole week you’d probably learn two moves, but these two moves will be more valuable to you than 50 moves you’d learn with somebody else. So it was a very simplified and effective style.
How has your father influenced you as a grappler and as a person?
As a grappler, it was kind of scary, you know, having a father with such a big reputation. I think he had a big influence on my attitude as a fighter. I have won many titles but I don’t often talk about them, because my daddy never said congratulations, he just said ‘Good, you did what you needed to do’. He would say to me ‘Go fight, and if you win or lose it doesn’t matter’. What mattered to him was that you had the courage to fight.
As a person, I think he had a good attitude. People really liked him and he was always there to help people; he’d always go out of his way to help others. That’s the kind of person I am too. My daddy used to have a lot of people go to his school, people that did not even pay. That’s why my daddy never really made money from Jiu-Jitsu, because probably 70 per cent of the students never paid. If they wanted to train Jiu-Jitsu, he would give them his time. That’s pretty much the way he was. However, this is where I am a little different — I think you have to look after the business aspect too.
What can you tell me about the ‘Gracie Challenge’ introduced by Carlos Gracie?
The Gracie Challenge was created by my grandfather to prove our style was better. So Carlos used to put advertisements in the newspaper challenging everyone — whoever would want to fight him, even his brothers and his students.
How did students from other styles fare against Gracie Jiu-Jitsu?
Well, if the fight started standing up, it was a great opportunity for students from styles like Muay Thai to get strikes in, but as soon as the fight came to a grappling situation there was no chance for any style. If the challenger fought fair and didn’t run away, the fight didn’t last two minutes. I’m not saying Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu won every time, but most of the time it was the better style.
What is it that makes Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu so effective against other styles?
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is effective because we are always perfecting the techniques. As we are talking here, somebody is creating a new move. As the competition gets harder, people develop new moves. When you look at boxing and other striking arts, they can be limited to traditional moves — like in boxing, the straight jab, cross, hook and uppercut, or in karate it is [the techniques contained in] kata — but Jiu-Jitsu is always developing.
While there are many Gracie trained fighters in MMA, it’s been a few years since there has been a top-tier fighter or champion with the Gracie surname in America or Japan. People are talking about Roger Gracie perhaps bringing the family back into contention. In your view, when will we see the Gracie name back atop the UFC/MMA rankings and who are the up-and-comers we should watch out for?
When it comes to Jiu-Jitsu, there’s no doubt that Roger Gracie is the best, and he’s proven this on the mat. He has excellent technique and a good attitude. I think he needs to do some more MMA fights, but I don’t know if that is his goal. I visited him last September in England but he didn’t mention anything about Mixed Martial Arts. I know he’s done some but I don’t know if he wants to proceed in that direction. I don’t know of anybody in the family right now who might be an up-and-comer; we are all very busy doing so much work with Jiu-Jitsu, so I’m not sure if we are going to have any new fighters any time soon.
As the Gracie family expands so does Jiu-Jitsu, thus there are obviously more and more occasions when Gracies or their students must compete against each other in BJJ, submission-grappling or MMA. Does the competition remain friendly among the various
Gracie camps and clans, and is there some kind of family rule regarding fighting one another in MMA?
I will never get any of my students to fight a Gracie family member in an MMA competition. If they are matched against a Gracie-trained student then yeah it’s fine, but I will never train anybody to fight against my blood. In Jiu-Jitsu, I myself would not train to fight against one of my nephews or one of my cousins. I try and avoid it. I think if I can avoid a situation where I train a student to beat another Gracie, it is best, because if a Gracie loses, it hurts me too because I’m a Gracie. Even if he’s on the other side of the family, it doesn’t really matter. You know, I think you have to preserve a name.
Can you tell me about the work you do with law-enforcement agencies?
I teach North Carolina State Police and I train the SWAT team for the army too. What I teach them isn’t exactly Jiu-Jitsu, I teach them to avoid Jiu-Jitsu. Mostly what I aim to teach them is to make sure they don’t get taken to the ground. They train hard, usually 40 hours in one week, eight hours a day — they love it. They do weapon retention, ground control and disengagement. I teach the police to protect their weapon, get away from the guy, get up and draw a spray or gun, or whatever is necessary in the situation. In case they get into a tussle, I teach them some arm-bars and other submissions, but I tell them this is just for you to know — the main thing is get away from the guy, that’s the best idea.
What was the reason for taking Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu to the US?
My father wanted to enter his fighters in the UFC and other MMA events. My father got an invitation to move to the United States so he took the opportunity and stayed there for a while. He opened a school in LA, California.
How long have you been teaching in the US, since moving from the original academy in Copacabana?
At first I went there for two months to help my dad a little bit. Then I went back to Brazil, but I got an invitation to move to Chicago. I arrived on 21 September 1996. I didn’t speak any English so I had to have a guy translate for me. I have been there ever since, so it has been almost 14 years.
You recently visited the Australian Carlson Gracie Academy. Do you notice a difference in the way Australians train, compared to Brazilians or Americans?
I think there’s not much difference, and if there is a difference it lies with the individual student. I think overall, right now everybody takes Jiu-Jitsu very seriously, because they know it is a hard sport and it is a fun sport. I think people get addicted to Jiu-Jitsu, so they want to take advantage of every single thing they can learn. I guess the difference also comes from the instructor. We have a great instructor in Ben Hall at the Melbourne Academy; the students have a great attitude and are very respectful. I don’t think there is any difference between our academies in the US, Brazil and Australia. I think everybody in the Carlson Gracie Team takes their Jiu-Jitsu training seriously.
Which countries in the world currently practice Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu?
We currently have Carlson Gracie representatives all around the world. We have schools in nearly all continents, from South America, North America and Europe to Australia. The Carlson Gracie Team is always growing.
What are your goals for Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu?
My plan for competition is that we’ll get to the podium and win first place. It’s going to be tough, but we are in the process of uniting the whole Carlson Gracie team from around the world. In recent years each instructor has been entering their own individual team, so my focus now is to bring us all together to compete as one, to get us where we deserve to be.
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