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Manne and Boylan on their beginnings with Bob Jones…
Billy Manne: The day I walked into the Elizabeth St dojo in 1970 and first saw Bob Jones, Bob’s intensity, drive and passion was the turning point for me. The image of Bob that was implanted in my mind that day has forever more defined me as a martial artist.
Justin Boylan: I’d never done martial arts before, but had competed in swimming and surf life-saving events at state and national levels. Then my second-oldest brother joined the army and was posted to South Australia. He had been training in Zen Do Kai in South Australia for several years and while on annual leave in Perth, Western Australia, he took me to a training session at the local Bob Jones Martial Arts club. I joined up the next day.
On personal growth…
Manne: People have always commented on my tough training style and sometimes those who have not met me before have the wrong impression of me. I still believe in purity and integrity in my training and teaching, but that hardness doesn’t have to translate to an overtly tough image.
I love having fun and telling jokes. I find it very effective as a teacher to be able to put a new, maybe shy student at ease by joking. I am probably more approachable as I have become older, but that is a result of working on some of my personal weaknesses and becoming a stronger individual. I have always found that those who try to portray the hard image are often covering up weaknesses. I live a hard, basic lifestyle: no alcohol, no junk food, virtually vegetarian and a lot of training.
Boylan: Failing at a coloured-belt grading was the best thing that ever happened to me. It taught me the value of proper preparation and, more importantly, to focus on the skills and techniques of the martial arts, rather than the rank or colour of the belt.
On turning points in the history of Zen Do Kai…
Manne: Our style has constantly evolved. That is the great strength of the style: to want to continue to improve and become stronger. Of course that strength emanates from Bob, who has always been cutting-edge. It was Bob and his desire to constantly improve the style that laid the foundations for ZDK in the first instance. From its inception, ZDK has been evolving — that was Bob’s point all along. And that’s something I have always adhered to, and always will.
Boylan: A short time after I joined, the Zen Do Kai system began to change to incorporate more freestyle techniques. In addition, Japanese terminology was replaced with English, making it easier to learn and understand instructions in classes. One of the early formative changes was the introduction of kickboxing, which then evolved into Muay Thai. I started training and competing in amateur wrestling in 1989. A couple of years later when Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts fighting hit the martial arts world, Zen Do Kai training evolved further to include these new techniques as well.
These changes have kept me interested and provided new challenges to develop and improve skill levels. Weapons training has also been an important part of our martial style and there are a number of Zen Do Kai students now skilled in the use of various weapons and weaponry systems.
On the tough reputation of ZDK men, both on the mat and in the security industry…
Manne: The reason we were tough was because it was real. You must remember that I had come to Australia after a stint in Johannesburg [South Africa]. At that time, Jo’burg was one of the bloodiest and most violent places on earth. I had seen a lot of street violence. I also had dabbled in martial arts but no one was teaching things that were real. That was, until I walked into a dojo in Elizabeth St, Melbourne, in 1970. I was blown away by the aura and energy of the instructor; that of course was Bob Jones. Everything he taught, every move was real. It worked. I knew I had come home. I was in awe of Bob and those training with him: Dave Berry, Paul Fleming, Vince Rando, Peter Law, Dave Carpenter, Nicky Pappas, Steve Colangelo, Tum Joe and Richard Norton were all there that day, and they were frightening in their abilities.
While in training for 2nd Dan, my training was extreme by most people’s standards but you need to remember the standard that had been set by those who had gone before me, such as Dave Berry and Paul Fleming.
We worked at the nightclubs in those days and I would train before work and straight after the clubs shut at about two in the morning. I would go back to the dojo and train for two hours and then have a kip and train for a few more hours.
Part of my training included long runs carrying a backpack full of sand. In South Melbourne there were two Housing Commisision towers of 30 floors each. One stairwell went clockwise and the other went anti-clockwise. I would run up the first tower to the roof and then do katas, then I would run up the other tower and do katas. The view was amazing and I would feel like I could touch heaven (must have been all those endorphins)! I would then run back the couple of kilometres to the dojo in the city, all while carrying my backpack of sand.
Boylan: Before opening his martial arts schools, Bob Jones ran a security company and many existing security operators began to train under him, keen to learn the practical and effective techniques he promoted. Many of his students were then employed in Bob Jones’ security firm. This happened successfully in every Australian state, so that as the years went by, more security operators chose to train in BJMA systems.
In relation to competitive fighting, Bob Jones was the first to introduce kickboxing and Muay Thai into Australia, so many of the first competitors in these sports were from BJMA. Again, this happened in every Australian state, producing numerous champions. The sports now have an ever-increasing mainstream following and the number of BJMA competitors has remained high.
For any student, being involved in either security work or competitive fighting will always change how you apply your martial arts training. You need to evaluate your performance and change your training to get the best possible results, and this forms an essential part of the freestyle philosophy of BJMA. I did 20 years of door work, ran a security training company for 12 years and owned a nightclub for six years. The one thing I have learned from this is that perception and awareness are more important than any martial art technique or skill. The most skilled language is also important to help you perceive non-verbal clues that can indicate that an assault may be attempted against you.
On proudest achievements…
Manne: My proudest achievements as an instructor are limitless: from my receiving my Black-belt, black gi, Bushido Cross [worn round the neck of the ZDK hardcore], followed by all my degrees in rank in so many different styles… Then a hundred times that satisfaction by passing all of these experiences on to all of my thousands of students since the early ’70s. Above all is the pride and satisfaction at being Probationary 8th Degree at this time in my career [currently the highest rank in Zen Do Kai]. Sometimes I just pinch myself to check I’m not simply dreaming everything that surrounds me!
Boylan: It is great to compete and also train fighters to win trophies and belts. I’ve been lucky to have had some great fighters develop at my school and to compete successfully in several different types of competition, from kickboxing to Muay Thai, submission grappling to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts. However, the proudest achievement has been the many thousands of dollars that we have raised to help a number of Perth charities. If you are healthy enough to do martial arts, it is a great blessing. To help those less fortunate than yourself is a meaningful way to express your gratitude for your good fortune.
On the changes Zen Do Kai has undergone…
Manne: From its beginnings as an elitist organisation, it has evolved today as an all-encompassing martial art, for the whole family of any nationality, religion, colour or creed — BJMA/ZDK is for everyone.
Boylan: The conduct and professionalism of the school owners has consistently improved. The knowledge base of instructors is much broader and therefore the learning curve of the students is faster. The training venues have a lot more equipment and operate more hours per week. Due to media exposure, the martial arts are now more available to people from all walks of life and instructors have better skills to develop programs that can suit a wide variety of people.
The system has constantly evolved over the years, as have the teaching and grading syllabuses. In Western Australia, I encourage club instructors to train their students in their own way. We then come together regularly to grade students on a set of common testing requirements. If a particular instructor is having additional successes or failures, we can review their methods and adopt or discard them as required.
On martial arts and business…
Manne: In some ways I was lucky but all I wanted to do was be a full-time martial artist and I sank everything into the dojo. Martial arts has changed from a business perspective and there is much better understanding of how to run a martial arts school as a business.
One of Bob’s concepts was, as we evolved as martial artists and progressed through the Dans, we would learn that business is a battlefield. As such, the logic is that we become better martial artists and better business operators, concurrently. In my case, this is true: now I see why The Art of War is used as a text in the Harvard Business School!
I am certainly not the only one in ZDK who has evolved as a businessman — the guys in the west [WA] do an amazing job. One of the outcomes of this accumulation of knowledge is that the up-and-coming schools in BJMA have a support system to use.
On inspiration…
Manne: My most important lesson from the martial arts has been that no matter how good you think you are, there is always someone out there you can learn from.
Boylan: The person who had the greatest influence on me was my original instructor, Rod Stroud. In addition, Rod frequently conducted training camps and flew in the best BJMA instructors from around Australia. I was fortunate to be able to train with, and be inspired by, these men. Of course, Bob Jones was a regular feature at the training camps and his freestyle philosophy has been, and remains, the cornerstone of my approach to martial arts.
On lessons learned…
Boylan: Recovery from training sessions is just as important as the physical exercise and correct nutrition. A lot of great martial artists would be in better physical shape now if they had given their bodies time to recover from strenuous exercise and injury. Martial arts is great fun, so it’s important to do everything you can to ensure that you can train for as long as possible.
On Zen Do Kai’s future…
Manne: My vision is simple: for almost 40 years I’ve supported the vision of our founder. Right now, Bob Jones and Billy Manne have never done it better. What is this thing that bonds us together with such undying passion? Expansion — and what is exciting about tomorrow is our world expansion plan.
The vision I have for BJMA is to embrace Bob’s vision. It must never be forgotten that all of ZDK and BJMA belongs to Bob. That is where it started. Bob has always looked at the bigger picture. It also must always be remembered that there has never been a more enduring or influential figure in Australian martial arts than Bob Jones — and there never will be. The way I run my school reflects Bob’s drive and desire to make martial arts accessible to everyone and a positive part of everyone’s lifestyle.
Boylan: It is important that a consistent standard of grading and assessing is enforced across all the Bob Jones Martial Arts schools. I also hope to help promote the World Kickboxing Association brand of fight nights and raise the standards of the competitors and officials. I would like to encourage other BJMA schools to become more involved in community and charity work.
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