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On defining moments in their martial arts journeys…
Steve Nedelkos: There have been so many things that I can mention and I am indeed very fortunate and grateful to have been given so many opportunities by Soke Bob Jones and Zen Do Kai as a whole. But reflecting back on the things that swayed my thinking, attitudes and perspectives, there are several events I’d mention.
Firstly, my first grading (Blue-tip) at the Elizabeth St Honbu. There was a queue a mile long (I am serious) of people waiting to grade. It was terrifying. Billy Manne was stalking the stairs yelling at people (if you knew Billy back then, you will know what I mean) — I was so intimidated I almost turned around to go home and give it a big miss. What was that about that first step in a journey being seemingly the hardest?
Second was going for my Double Brown-tip grading, only to be sat down half-way through, thinking that I had failed. In fact, I and another fellow were asked to come back in two days to do our Brown-belt grading, as we stood out from the rest of the group. It got me thinking, ‘Hey maybe I’m gonna be okay at this karate stuff’. I recall this being a real turning point for me, as I was then closer to Black-belt than White-belt. One of my early instructors, Keith Tyter, once told me that if I wanted to be a Black-belt then I had to start training, acting, moving, thinking like a Black-belt… I have kept that little bit of wisdom with me since and have applied it in most of my endeavours, as it reminded me to be positive and live the experience rather than dwell on whether I am up to it or not.
Another defining moment was being told by the Chief [Soke Bob Jones] to ‘take it easy today’ on the last day of my first week-long training camp at Mt Evelyn. I’d just got my Black-belt eight months prior, and innocently asked “Oh, how come?” to be told “You’re doing your 2nd Dan grading tonight.” One has to try and appreciate that in 1976, 2nd Dan with us in ZDK was a big thing and to have had the ‘privilege’ to do Shodan-ho [probationary 1st Dan] to Nidan in almost record time, and to have the calibre of the top echelon of ZDK back then as part of that, was a very significant thing for me personally. It reinforced that maybe I can be good at martial arts. It was memorable: 30 rounds of sparring with Bob Jones, Richard Norton, Dave Berry and Billy Manne, all in the first four rounds. I was sparring with Billy and he had phenomenal kicks — he caught me across the face with a huge round-kick that lifted me in the air and dropped me to the floor — I had broken teeth and a broken nose, and I remember looking up, thinking ‘What the hell was that?’ And there was Billy standing over me, growling, “Get up!” And I thought, ‘Gee, do I have to?’
But would I change any of it? Probably not…
Paul Jeffrey: I’m now just turning 57 and daily feel like I am just beginning a martial arts journey. It’s an amazing path to walk and to reflect back on.
At age 12, when attending a Mormon boarding school in New Zealand, I had the opportunity to join a karate class during school hours instead of physical education. A teacher from Hawaii was training in what I am now sure was a form of Goju and since the school was American in its format, he was allowed or encouraged to do this. I remember that we used to get up at 5.00am before the other students awoke to train in a parking lot that had gravel on the ground. It used to hurt something terrible. Then we also had classes three days a week in school hours instead of phys-ed. It was great! Moving forward in time, in 1984–85 I had the opportunity to live with Soke Bob and teach as the head instructor for ZDK in Melbourne. Just imagine, living and training with the legendary ‘Red Dragon’. No matter how some of your readers perceive him, he was, and still is, a most incredible real-life fighter. They don’t make warriors like him anymore — he must have arrived in this time zone by clerical error with his intergalactic time-zone ticket!
On turning points in the history of Zen Do Kai and Bob Jones Martial Arts…
Nedelkos: We started promoting and bringing martial arts to the masses and to people of all walks of life. It’s the diversity in what we have to offer, and the diligent and hardworking instructors who go out there night after night, week after week, month after month and year after year. It’s been a history of innovation.
Jeffrey: I discovered BJMA/ZDK in about 1977. I think by the late ’70s/early ’80s there was a turning point in our system as Soke Bob reached an age when he had seen enough of violence and began his own inner journey to discover the esoteric aspects of martial arts. This brought about a lot of innovative changes in what we as an organisation perceived as a good result for what we were doing. Winning fights in the street was no longer a perfect result on its own. We began to recognise and promote qualities outside of just being a great fighter. Of course, for any martial artist this is important, but just as each individual reaches an age of maturity, so too did our overall organisation. Being part of this evolution has been rewarding and mind-expanding, as I have personally endeavoured to put my martial experience into my daily life.
On the tough reputation of ZDK men, both on the mat and on the doors as security professionals…
Nedelkos: As far as breeding ‘tough’ martial artists, I think you need to reflect on the beginnings of ZDK and how it came to be — being in the right place at the right time, and not only talking the talk, but walking the walk. Once you have these, and the experience that counts, it all adds up to a pretty formidable set of circumstances. Every organisation has a culture and its culture is often determined by its leadership.
You also need to consider the impact and fallout of being among the first to challenge and break through some of the ‘traditional’ belief systems from an Australian martial arts perspective. This didn’t go down all that well among the martial arts fraternity at the time… The BJC [Bob Jones Corporation] was a breakaway and looked down upon by some sectors of the martial arts community, so we felt we had to train twice as hard to prove we were worthy. This established a culture of hard work and realism in training, and many of those original ZDK people put a lot of that into practice on clubs’ and pubs’ front doors, out of necessity (there were those who were out to get us!). This, in part, provided for a culture of tough guys, a belief in ourselves and a belief in our organisation.
I think it’s also fair to say that we readily embraced back then — and still do — what we now call ‘cross-training’. We brought kickboxing and Muay Thai to Australia. The training associated with these, for example, had a direct impact on the way we trained, the individuals we produced and, by default, the exposure it provided to the public and the media.
But apart from that, one thing that cannot be disregarded has been the capacity to build strong and lasting relationships within the organisation… a strong sense of loyalty that was not demanded but came naturally. I think that when you put all these things together, you may be able to explain the phenomenon as being due to a multitude of reasons, not just one single thing.
Jeffrey: Rather than try and tell stories of how the tough reputations were made, let me just say that what you have heard is true. Most people will never get the opportunity to experience some of the list below of to-die-for opportunities that are part of the BJC legends of toughness:
- Grappling with Bob Jones — close your eyes and imagine it… I mean really imagine it!
- Drill routines with Richard Norton — there’s nothing faster outside of a particle accelerator!
- Traditional karate defence with Billy Manne — that hurt! [Laughs]
- Street defence with Rod Stroud — is there a harder street fighter on the planet?
- Experiencing explosive power with George Zachariah — be a crash test dummy.
- Fight training with Dave Hedgcock — Mr Toughguy himself.
- The BJC has a reputation for toughness because it was built on toughness.
On proudest achievements…
Nedelkos: I have been privileged to have been given many opportunities over the course of time and I would like to think that I have made a mark somewhere among all that. I think that these sorts of things are often best judged by others, but I would probably say my proudest achievement would be having the opportunity to re-shape ZDK in Victoria in the early 1990s, particularly pulling together our 25th Anniversary get-together for the whole of our organisation across Australasia. I think that may have been a bit of a pivotal moment in time that would have had an impact of what has occurred from 1995 to 2010.
One other thing that may be worth mentioning was my time when I was an inaugural member of the Martial Arts Control Board with the Victorian Government in the 1980s. Not withstanding the issues that the Board faced at the time, I think an unanticipated consequence of my membership was that it provided opportunities to meet people from the broader Victorian martial arts community. Through this contact, I think some of the attitudes towards Zen Do Kai changed.
Jeffrey: Finding myself one day with the odds against me and my back to the wall, and realising within myself that I am a Black-belt and that nothing can beat me down; that I am an ultimate warrior within myself. Coming through life’s moments and knowing that being a Black-belt made all the difference.
On the changes Zen Do Kai has undergone…
Nedelkos: I think it’s generally more inclusive and able to offer something for a broad cross-section of the community. While we have the sport/competition-oriented aspects, we still embrace some of the traditions and that gives us balance. There is something for everyone, no matter who you are or what your interest is. We have continually reinvented ourselves and we will continue to do so. I also think that in many ways, BJMA is an ‘open system’ and has the flexibility to have influence from some of the best martial artists around.
Jeffrey: Our organisation has been guided through an evolution. Change has been encouraged, accepted and embraced. This is something that sets the BJMA apart as a martial arts system.
On inspirations…
Nedelkos: I can probably pinpoint a host of inspirations depending on one’s context at the time… Different things are important at different points in your life. Probably one of my most satisfying, inspiring and motivating things I have done in a long time was the recent training trip to Okinawa with a bunch of ZDK seniors. Training at the Jundokan with Taira Masaji Sensei (in Okinawan Goju-ryu) was a wonderful experience and yes, we all did learn a few things. The trip ignited a passion to rediscover what I had already done years ago, but with all the details that were missing or inadvertently misrepresented. It is not always about learning new things, but seeing things from a different perspective that helps keep the passion going.
I think the more important question is really about ‘why do we do what we do?’
Jeffrey: As a direct and personal student of Bob Jones, he is above everyone the greatest influence on my martial life. He is also an inspiration of energy for those who know him well, and has the unique human ability to immediately understand and become absorbed in other people’s projects and dreams. He is truly a great man.
Outside of BJMA there are a host of people that I find inspiring and motivating to my daily life, but the greatest without any doubt or par is Chinggis [Ghengis] Khan. Not only is he known as the greatest warrior ruler of all time, he was extremely active in adapting new fighting skills and new ideas into the Mongolian Empire. Of course he was also a horseback warrior, so Chinggis holds a special place in my life. His philosophies so closely resemble those of Zen Do Kai in ‘the best of everything in progression’.
On the process of discovering other martial arts and training methods…
Jeffrey: For BJMA as a whole, the most important discovery would have to be that it is okay to change. Once this discovery is made, everything else can follow. Without this discovery, without the ability to change, without the joy and enthusiasm for change, an organisation will slowly stagnate and die.
For me, the most important discovery in my martial life has been that my lifetime obsession with horses is a natural thing for a horseback warrior that belongs in another place and time. The discovery that I can blend my fighting skills into my horseman skills has given me connections in my passions and activities. This can be best explained by visiting the website www.dragon-riders.org
On maintaining quality skills among students who learn multiple martial arts within Zen Do Kai…
Jeffrey: This can be a difficult problem. Each instructor should address this within their own teaching curriculum. For me, it is important that my students understand the value in traditional stances and forms. Styles of fighting change over the years, but the human body’s ability to maintain balance and strength while delivering or absorbing power has not changed since we stood up on two legs. The best way to develop good use of the body’s energies is through traditional style forms and deep postural stances. Whether the individual is a kickboxer, a grappler, a combat defence student or a horseback warrior, all will be better for the study of deep postural stances and movements. These movements and stances found in the old forms are the fighter’s daily yoga and stretching, the focus food for the mind, and the expansion of the inner spirit.
On visions for their future in Zen Do Kai…
Nedelkos: I am unfortunately not in the position to run my own school these days, so my interest lies with providing input into our senior instructors. One of our primary objectives as an instructor is to eventually ‘replace’ ourselves. To me, this means giving to those who will come after us the benefit of what has been gained and learnt by those who have gone before. We have many quite senior instructors — 5th and 6th Dans — and in the not-too-distant future we will have a number of 7th and 8th Dans.
I love what I do, I love learning and I particularly love re-learning what I think I already know well, only to know it with more depth and understanding. It’s ultimately the journey that matters rather than the destination — a well-worn phrase I know, but a true one, I think. While we don’t want people to take shortcuts, we want that journey to be as meaningful as possible. Overall, I think we will continue to be innovative and be relevant to our times and society.
Jeffrey: Soke Bob Jones has for the last 20 years been studying the history of all the great warriors and their genetic/hereditary origins. His research takes him throughout Europe as his work on CELTS — the acronym for Connecting Europe’s Lost Tribes — explores the interrelationships of great warriors of history. This work is fascinating to me, as recently he has been connecting Chinggis Khan and Attila the Hun (two great horseback warriors) in his anthropological studies.
BJC has recently opened offices in north Spain near the French border and I am sure that slowly we will hear more of BJC in Europe, and I look forward to a close involvement in this.
I am strongly involved with Kassai Lajos from Hungary, the leading horseback archer in the world. My training with the Kassai schools has identified a weakness with their unarmed combat systems and it is enjoyable for me to develop the BJMA fighting styles into a system specifically geared to the skills of the horseback warrior. BJMA is introducing horseback warrior schools in Australia and Spain, and towards this we have just secured our first training farm on the Gold Coast… Watch this space!
I think that with all of this, coupled with my developing worldwide business group, I will be busy for the next 30 years, at least.
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